Transcript

Greg Dunaway :
This is where cultivation excellence meets unfiltered insight. Office Hours special edition. I'm Greg Dunaway taking you through the innovations and ideas that are shaping our global industry. Powered by AROYA's revolutionary approach to data driven growing, we're going to bring you the brightest minds behind today's biggest breakthroughs. From cutting edge solutions to market strategy, stay ahead in this rapidly evolving landscape. Hey, everybody. I am so stoked to have my buddy Jason Washington on us today. Jason is a multifaceted global cannabis leader.

Greg Dunaway :
You know, started out in Minnesota as a quarterback of all things, and now I believe is still Montana. Montana, Montana. You got me. So he is, he's one of my, my buddies. He has literally stood up to the federal government. He's been featured at MJ Bizcon. He has been an operator, a cultivator. I mean, there's pretty much nothing this guy hasn't done.

Greg Dunaway :
We're going to talk about all of it today. So first off, Jason, thank you so much for the time. I know you're in a hotel room. Tell us what you're up to today.

Jason Washington :
Yeah, man, happy to be here with you guys. Appreciate the opportunity. I'm on the road, you know, as we do. I know. I think you're headed over to Europe. I'm jealous. I'm not going to make this year's ICBC in Berlin. Germany is one of my favorite countries in the world, but I'm stateside.

Jason Washington :
I'm on the east coast, just visiting client for the next two days, kind of helping their cultivation stand up and get them off the ground.

Greg Dunaway :
Yeah, and I want to hear all about that, but I want people to really understand. Your story is one of my favorite stories in cannabis. And you and I are lucky. We get to hear a lot of them. Take us back. Take us back to Montana. Take us back to your days in college, what you thought you were going to do and how you first took that step into cannabis.

Jason Washington :
Yeah, you know, I never thought that I would now be sitting here saying that I've been in cannabis for 14, going on 15 years. I transferred to the University of Montana. I played football growing up. I come from a big athletic family and I was at a school in Ohio and I'm behind a Heisman candidate and I was a quarterback and we were the same year. He was a red shirt sophomore. I was a true sophomore. And so obviously I wanted to play and I went transferred down to the University of Montana, ended up getting hurt in the third game, fourth game of the year. And, you know, we started out we had a good year.

Jason Washington :
We were three and three and one at that time. Our only loss was to the University of Oregon, who went on to win one of the BCS games, I think that year, and ended up getting hurt. And from there, just a long road on. Rehab kind of took me through the ups and downs of a third degree shoulder separation, and now my shoulders completely rebuilt artificially. And it led me down my entrepreneurial path. I. My first kind of venture was. This was 2005, 2005, 2006, back before the housing crisis when you could buy real estate.

Jason Washington :
Stated income, stated asset. And so I bought five houses and rented all the rooms out to teammates. So I essentially had 15 doors still as a scholarship athlete at the university.

Greg Dunaway :
How old were you?

Jason Washington :
I would have been 22 years old at that time. Yeah, 5, 22. Yeah. And you know, because, look, football players get a bad rap on, on rentals. And so for me it was great just being in the locker room, being able to grab that, that rental money because I knew when the scholarship checks came, so that was my first one in the real estate venture. And, and, and then from there I started a chain of car, audio and accessory shops. Ended up with three of those. A show Pimp My Ride was on TV at the time.

Jason Washington :
So my biggest focus was, you know, what could we bring to Montana that was popular in other places? And the car culture in California has been something that's kind of always. I've always been around from uncles and a lot of cars being, you know, around our house. And so, yeah, I popped a chain of car audio, window tint accessories, rims and tires, full customization shop, and ended up with three of them and throughout the state. And that business was good for me, but, you know, I realized I wouldn't obtain the goals that I really wanted to and be able to, you know, I mean, I made, you know, fine money for kind of middle of the road, but I wanted more. And my. Actually one of my teammates that transferred into the University of Montana from Arizona State, he was my left tackle. He was actually also the reason I got hurt on a missed block. But he was, he was, he was my roommate and teammate and best friend at the time.

Jason Washington :
He was getting involved in smoke shops, like smoke accessories and whatnot and like handpipes and things like that. And he said, you know, we really need to look at this medical cannabis. And I was very, you know, I was reluctant for probably the first six, eight months until finally it just kind of, he kind of wore me down. And, you know, we Jumped in. We started the business with $3,000 and at the end of that year of actual operations, I was looking at a million dollars in net profits as a kid. Yeah, I was 24 years old. And seeing that kind of money stacked up in front of you was intoxicating and also too, you know, look, I firmly admit, you know, no here at the time I thought it was a disguise for people who just wanted to get high. I didn't really believe in the medical benefits, but we were operating within state law, so who am I to tell consenting adults they can or cannot enjoy something.

Jason Washington :
But after working in a dispensary every day, after being at clinics, after being hearing the science and hearing the testimonies of people, you know, I became a believer real quick and really stood on and stand on operating first and foremost from a medicinal purpose. But now in the recreational market too, you know, I believe cannabis is a, is a much more beneficial option than some of the others that are out there.

Greg Dunaway :
And you kind of, you know, you, I know this about you, you're being humble. I think, I think you, I think give some context around those operations in Montana. I mean, you know, at the height of what you had accomplished in Montana at your age, what did your operations look like? What was your day to day like?

Jason Washington :
Yeah, I mean, you know my, it's funny, my, my day to day is still seems to be about the same 18 hour days all after all these years. But five retail stores had to be fed by two cultivation facilities. Now you know, this is before any sorts of cannabis related systems in place that would help you track these things. So it was a lot of manual paper, if you will, tracking of harvest times and drying and carrying and being able to project what would be ready for the stores, then having to go out and secure other product. I mean I was probably the largest consumer of that something called caregiver to caregiver. So you caregivers in the state could purchase over, over produce medicine from other caregivers in order to take care of your patients if you had a need. And so I was probably the largest consumer of caregiver to caregiver product to ensure that my patients were all taken care of.

Greg Dunaway :
And, and when you think about, I think you, and I've talked about this before, when you think about that life you were leading, you know, at what point did it kind of get absurd? Like at what point did you, did you ever feel like you were over your skis? Like, because that is a lot to take on. And again, how old were you at.

Jason Washington :
That time I was 24. So 24 was my first year in. We got rated in November of 2011. So that would have been my third year in. So 27 going on 28 is when the feds rated me. And so actually 28 going on 29 is when I was fighting the indictment and fighting my case. But look, I mean, the cultivation facility, one of them we had was kind of up on a reservation. And so, you know, that's a three hour drive from our main hub.

Jason Washington :
And then there were the other smaller satellite stores which were then an hour. It was like a hub and spoke kind of model. Those were an hour out from the main hub. So just having to, you know, the logistical part of running the stores and our stores were open from, from 8:00am until 9:00pm I think was the cutoff on when those guys could be open. So operating the stores all day, receiving all the product back from the satellite stores so that in the morning those guys could go back out fully stocked, up for their day, but then also making drives up to cultivation in order to refill the retail stores. And out of not wanting to store product in the stores due to potential burglaries that could have happened, and we had two incidences of that. Not much was taken, but more damage was done than anything.

Greg Dunaway :
Well, you hinted at it. Let's, let's, let's, let's dive in. So you're out there, you're Montana State compliant. You're, you're a pioneer. You're doing things by the book. And the Fed show up and yeah, you know, take us, take us through that. Not only the kind of like, the like kind of the step by step of what happened, but what your mind is thinking at this point, because you're, you're sitting there going like, you know, crossing the T's.in the eyes. Right?

Jason Washington :
Yeah, you know, it was, it was funny because the feds had come through Montana earlier that year, I want to say in March of 2011. But the notion was the reason they had come through was there was a facility that was on the main highway. It was kind of, you know, a finger. It was in the Capitol. It was kind, everybody could see it. You know, the lights are on at night so you could see the plant. So we kind of thought that that was more of a retaliatory kind of raid, if you will, against these guys who were trying to make a statement. And the way we ran our operation was very, you know, that's why there's not outside of DEA surveillance pictures and videos.

Jason Washington :
It's not like it is today. You know, we're not on Insta. We were not on Instagram, we were not showing anything on Facebook. We, you know, there, there were no posing, pose pictures and facilities or any of that stuff. Because back then we, you know, we knew what the risk was. One, but we also, you know, specifically in a conservative environment like Montana, you don't really want to put your business out there. And so we didn't operate in that way. But when the feds came through the first time, we thought, hey, you know, that was what kind of catapulted me to be the largest carrier in the state.

Jason Washington :
A lot of the patients from those other guys came over to us and we were known for always being open, always having medicine, the reliability. And so it really, it really just kind of catapulted me to the next level, I think. And then, you know, when you're the biggest, I think you have a target on your back. And every article, every news clipping, every, you know, news segment always led with former grizzly quarterback. So the sentiment was, look, everybody thought in the industry, amongst caregivers, you guys are the biggest. They'll never take you down. But when they came, they raided 12 locations simultaneously. And they came with the high intensity drug task force, it's called Haida.

Jason Washington :
They called in a bunch of agents from Denver, Colorado, and they, you know, they, they hit everywhere at one time. And so they did take us down. And they, they, they came full force. I stood on principle and took them to trial because we were following Montana law. You know, at that time. I was a graduate of the University of Montana. I was a Montana resident. I was a Montana business owner.

Jason Washington :
For all intents and purposes, I was a Montanan. And so I thought that if we stood on business from a perspective that a jury of Montanans wouldn't. I did not believe that a jury of fellow Montanans would convict me. And I think that there, there we would have, we would have had some chances, man, to beat it at trial through the voir dire process. Had one gentleman who still, I think about this all the time. He stood up, he was on, you know, he was on questioning, he was on the final round. And if you know how the, how that process worked, jury selection, the prosecution gets X number of strikes and the defense gets X number of strikes. And so this one gentleman who was the prosecution had one more strike.

Jason Washington :
And I thought that they were going to strike this lady, which we all thought they would have. They were going to strike, but they ended up Striking this man because he said if this, he, and he was an old cowboy guy, you know, had it like a shirt that was with the pearl button pockets on the front. And he, and you know, he just said, look, man, if, if, if this is about medical cannabis, I'm gonna cut him loose. And so that's what ended up striking him. And that, that was, that's what kind of sealed my fate there.

Greg Dunaway :
So, so again, you, you go from essentially running a completely legitimate business, making really good money for your age. You're an entrepreneur, you've got businesses left and right. You know, you had the car audio, you had cannabis, and all of a sudden, you know, you're, you're facing down, you're facing down some, some serious charges. What, what happened next for you? I mean, because I'm lucky. I know the end of this story. But for those of you who don't, you went through some really tough shit. And then, and then to get us to the Guiding Light. The light at the end.

Jason Washington :
Yeah, for sure. It, you know, I was indicted initially on, on three counts. Conspiracy to produce over 100 kilos, which carries a mandatory minimum 10 years. Possession with the intent to distribute over 100 kilos, which carries another consecutive mandatory of 10 years in possession of a firearm in furtherance of drug trafficking. So in Montana, I mean, carrying guns is kind of the norm. So they used my concealed carry permit that was issued by law enforcement, which is double jeopardy and entrapment in itself as a way. They use these, these, these indictments in all of these years to stack up the numbers. So when they present it to you, it looks like you're going to prison for the rest of your life.

Jason Washington :
And it's supposed designed to scare you. At that time, though, I had just had my son. He wasn't even 1 years old when I went to trial. He was maybe seven months old at that time. Yeah, six or seven months old. But I just felt that if I don't stand up for what's right. And what was right was I was a licensed caregiver by the state of Montana. I had licensed businesses, business locations in every spot where we had a dispensary.

Jason Washington :
That means city ordinance signed off, issued us a business license. The state of Montana. There is no sales tax in the state of Montana, so there was no board of equalization or anything like that. What we have in other states. But all the possible permits that existed, we had them. And so, you know, for me it was, it was came down to, you know, we knew the job was dangerous when we signed up and this is a possible consequence. So you stand up and you fight and you fight for what's right. And in that situation, what was right was not for the argument to be.

Jason Washington :
The indictment should not have been the United States of America versus Jason Washington. All that I did was follow a program to the T that was issued and designed by the state of Montana. And now we may have executed it better than anyone else, but I should not be punished for that. And so I felt that that argument needed to be taken between. That was an argument between the state of Montana and the federal government because by definition the state of Montana should have been my co conspirator because they gave me permission to conduct this business.

Greg Dunaway :
Right, right, right.

Jason Washington :
So, so I, you know, at that time I felt that they, you know, should have also been a part of that conversation.

Greg Dunaway :
So you stood up. You were the one who fought. I know there were, I know there are other people in your shoes, particularly in that state, who chose not to. And, you know, my question for you is, I'm not going to. We don't have to go into the nitty gritty details, but I think it's important for people to know, you know, on a personal level, you know, how did you feel knowing that you, you know, you were, you were the only one who was willing to stand up?

Jason Washington :
Well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you what's crazy, is some of the, some guys who went on to be very large players in the recreational cannabis space in other states where my business partners on paper talked to the feds and exchanged immunity to testify against me to avoid prosecution. And those guys went on to make a lot of money in other states. And when I say a lot of money, I'm talking, you know, millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars on other deals that they became a part of. And you know, my, I come from Oakland, California, growing up, I can't do the rat thing. It's not in my genetic code and DNA. I'm not built like that. I'm not. To me, these rats, man, these are, these are guys are low self esteem.

Jason Washington :
They're guys that were never built for it. And they're guys that shouldn't have been involved from the beginning. So I can't, I just can't do what they chose to do. And I would never testify against my friends. I would have been sitting right there in jail with my friends figuring out when we come home how we're gonna rewrite the remix the story and run it back and make money Together, I would have never done what they did. And so, you know, there were seven of us who were indicted on the case. Two. There were.

Jason Washington :
There were. There were 10. 10, 10 people involved. Two of those people chose the immunity deals from the feds and chose to testify against me and move on down in the southwest US and, you know, your viewers can figure out who those guys were and if they so choose, but all that stuff's a long time ago, man, and I'm not here to put people on blast in that way. But, yeah, they, they. That's. That's what happened, man. So seven of us went to trial.

Jason Washington :
We were able to get the case dismissed against my accountant, and then everybody else on my case ended up pleading out. They just didn't want to go all the way. Yeah, I took them all the way to the box, no doubt.

Greg Dunaway :
And so, so we're gonna get out because your, Your story out is. Is incredible. But I do think it's important for viewers to understand what you thought was going to happen when you, when they, when they marched you away in handcuffs. How long did you think you were going away for?

Jason Washington :
You know, I, it was funny. So on the day of the raids, they never took. They, they. They picked me up. I got the call that we were getting raided by my accountant. So I raced down to the bank trying to clear out the contents of one of my safe deposit boxes, and that's where they ended up getting me, was at the bank. But they told me, look, you're not arrested, you're facing an indictment. The indictment will probably come down in 30 to 60 days, but we have search warrants for 12 of these locations.

Jason Washington :
Now, you have two choices. One, we either break all the doors down, or we can. You can, we'll follow you to each location and you unlock the door for us nicely, and we don't have to destroy your property. And so, look, that was the most gracious thing that they did, other than in the cultivation. They cut at the ballast where the. They cut the power to the building, and then where the ballast plugged into every outlet, they just cut that. So you had hanging cords coming out of the outlets so you couldn't reuse those. And then they broke every.

Jason Washington :
The. The glass on every hood, they broke those two. So all the equipment was useless. They ripped all the plants out. Other than that, all they did was, you know, take all the computers, crack safes, do that whole kind of thing, like, kind of looking for not much that they didn't find. And so at the time, I didn't know what was going to happen through the process of pretrial hearings. We, we, we kind of were getting some, some small victories in that. And so, you know, I thought we had a real chance to beat him at trial, to be honest with you.

Jason Washington :
I didn't think that, I didn't think I'd lose. I ended up beating him on the gun count on that, on that charge. But I lost on the two cannabis counts. We never denied those. We stood up and we said, hey, yeah, we operated, but we operated under the pretense of, you know, the licenses from the state, state of Montana and five different municipalities with permits for business license. So I was okay with it. You know, I just kind of put it in God's hands, man, and said, it's going to be what it's going to be. You know, I didn't worry about it too much.

Jason Washington :
I knew that there was going to be light at the end of the tunnel somewhere.

Greg Dunaway :
So yeah, let's get to it. So you go, yeah, I'm not gonna make you relive your days. No, all good in prison. I, but I do. One of my favorite stories before we get to all your accomplishments now is tell us about the day that you were released. That is one of my favorite stories.

Jason Washington :
You know, so well, which, now, which day because you remember, they took. So I went, I, they appealed my sentence to 9th Circuit. So just real quick to let you know, so I beat him on the gun counts, lost on the two marijuana counts. I was supposed to have five year mandatory minimums on the conspiracy and the possession. The judge in my case said, look, everything in your application for search warrant was not proven here at trial. But under federal law, I have to send you to prison for being found guilty on these counts. So I'm going to give you one year on each count instead of the five year mandatory minimums. So he downward departed on those.

Jason Washington :
Now it's up to a federal judge. You know, federal judges can do whatever they want. The prosecution appealed me to the ninth Circuit and the ninth Circuit said, look, by definition the prosecution is correct, but we did not sit on the case. Therefore, we're going to give our recommendation of 10 years in prison, but we're going to send it back to the district judge in order for him to re sentence you, which is also not usually what they do. What usually will happen is the ninth Circuit will issue a ruling and say, yep, we believe you should go back to prison for 10 years. And then most times the district judge will just agree with that ruling and send you for 10 years. Well, this judge said, look, I sat on this case for two and a half years of my life. Nothing was proven here.

Jason Washington :
And so I'm going to resentence you now. And he said, you ready to be resent and stand up? First of all, he said, well, why are you in my courtroom in orange? As if I had violated or something. Because I was out, I had already served my time. I was in the halfway house, I was back working at the stereo shop and then the marshals came in and scooped me up one day.

Greg Dunaway :
Well.

Jason Washington :
My judge said, you ready to be re sentenced? So I stood up. At that point is when I was scared because I had just come down from being in custody at that time for 15 months. I was in the halfway house for a month so starting to re acclimate to society. And then the marshals come scoop me up, take me back into custody for two more months awaiting this decision from the ninth Circuit. So he resents me. What he says is I'm going to reduce your sentence from, from 24 months down to 21 months. And what that means is you're going to go home today. And the reason I'm doing that is because.

Jason Washington :
And he looked right at the prosecutor, he said, you've already held him in confinement longer than I had intended and if you want to appeal that sentence, go ahead and I'll just get rid of the probation, the probation tail at the end. So I had a four year probation tale. I went back to the University of Montana, finished my second degree and ended up getting off probation in somewhere maybe seven, 16 or 22 months. I don't exactly remember, but it was about half the time.

Greg Dunaway :
That is my favorite part of the story is that judge saying, hey yeah, try and come after him one more time, see what happens.

Jason Washington :
I love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, look, he really rolled for me. I mean the whole case was bullshit. It wouldn't have been brought in any other district. I don't believe, I mean, I don't know. Once they get a hard on for you and you know, I mean we don't have time to talk about all the stuff, but there was, there was a lot, man. You know, we, when you, when you're flying private planes and have houses in multiple states, I think all of that looks as if you are doing illicit activity outside of the realm of medical cannabis. But you know, we weren't.

Greg Dunaway :
They think they thought you were Al Pacino, you know, Absolutely.

Jason Washington :
No doubt. But you know, look, when you work harder than everybody else, that's that's kind of always. That's the only thing that doesn't leave you is there's no substitute for hard work.

Greg Dunaway :
No. And we're going to start talking about that right now. Because what I wanted people to understand now is you are out. You have been completely burned by this industry. You know, I'm going to go ahead and assume that nobody reached out to pay your legal defense from your former partner. So here you are.

Jason Washington :
Yeah.

Greg Dunaway :
And you have a choice, you know, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? So what did that look like for you? What. What led you back into cannabis and how did. How did that happen?

Jason Washington :
Yeah, so when I got back out, I was mad at. Mad at cannabis. I was angry at it because I didn't feel like the industry stood up for me, you know, for all the patients that we took care of for so long. I don't. I didn't feel that there was any moral justice or victory that came from that. So I. When I was in prison, I was. I was a barber and I talked to, you know, the guys who seem to still have some motion on the street, seem to kind of still have something going on.

Jason Washington :
And it always came down to the old mafia guys and they'd say like, look, when you get on, stay away from the drugs and get involved to the sanitation. And so that always kind of stuck with me. And I started a business in California that assists waste management on moving dumpsters in and out multi family and commercial high rise buildings. And I started that in 2016 and still have it today. And yeah, you know, they've been right. That's. The trash needs to move every day. And it definitely does.

Jason Washington :
And it's. It's been something that, that you can go to sleep at night not having to worry about any doors being smashed in or waking up to frozen bank accounts, that's for sure.

Greg Dunaway :
So. So you. The mafia guys get you to sanitation. I love that part too. And then now how do you get dragged back into the plant?

Jason Washington :
Yeah, so that. Okay. So I got. So. So finally got back to California after I finished my second degree. I had the sanitation business running for about a year and an old. One of my best friends, man, still to this day, Matthew Morgan hit me and he said, hey man. He had left Montana and moved down to Arizona and started a big gross supply store and then a chain of dispensaries.

Jason Washington :
He was the first bloom in Arizona long time ago. And then he went on and left bloom and went to do reef dispensaries and reef Was in Vegas, in Arizona. And then he got an opportunity to leave Reef and co found Ignite Cannabis Co. Alongside Dan Bilzerian. So I was in Oakland at that time. He was moving to la. He called me up and he said, hey man, are you ready for one more, one more go at this thing? I think we can really make a run. And you know, I thought about it for a little bit and everything kind of just kept, I mean the momentum was really picking up around legalization in California and all that stuff.

Jason Washington :
And so everything just was kind of headed in that direction, you know. And so I said look man, you know, maybe it's not the life I chose with the life that chose me. So let's, let's get back in and let's go and got back in. Through Ignite, I was a director of operations through Green Access Capital, which was a Canadian funded venture to start Ignite cannabis company. And that was alongside Matt and Dan. And you know, look, we, we, we gave it a go. I think the, the business took a turn that wasn't adopted fully by the cannabis, the core cannabis industry, the kind of the parties and the, all of the more or less marketing that went towards the product, everything at the core of cannabis was kind of forgotten about. And so it turned and morphed into something that was more of a show than, more than, than, than what I, what the core reason for me being involved.

Jason Washington :
So it just came a time where it was time to move on and through that came the birth of culture. And so that's what we, that's what I operate now and that's what I have now. And yeah, let's talk about it because.

Greg Dunaway :
Culture, for all those people who are going to go Google this. K U L T U R E Kulture Global. I cannot begin to think about the different arms that you have and different ideas you have. You know, for all those guys who are listening to this, guys and girls who are listening to this, your entrepreneurial spirit is crazy. I mean, I think we just heard six businesses you started. So what was the genesis of Kulture and what has it morphed into over time?

Jason Washington :
Yeah, you know, Kulture started out as it was our next spinoff, Weaving Ignite. And what Kulture was going to be was a chain of retail dispensaries, kind of a roll up across California and Canada. But we quickly realized that being stuck to one location was very difficult. And what we needed to do was, was utilize our expertise across the entire supply chain into the different aspects of business. And so the next step in the evolution of Kulture was developed into an agency. And the agency side of the business was to help with marketing, branding, sales, aggregation for brands providing operational expertise. Where I like to specialize was bringing legacy operators. The definition of legacy operators, guys who's been in the business for 10 plus years, if you've been involved for 10 plus years, you've been involved in an environment that was not always so copacetic.

Jason Washington :
And so what we have now and so comfortable. And so I identify those men as legacy operators, men and women as legacy operators and people who have been around when things weren't so cushy and so placing legacy operators being that, that connective glue between corporate cannabis and legacy operators because they're two different languages. Right. And legacy guys don't always understand the financial demands that come from money that's been raised into different adventures. And so to be that glue and that translator in the middle is where I, you know, really had excelled for a period there. So that was kind of the full offering at Culture. Then we spout dove into developing a clothing line to go along with the brand, kind of the parent brand. And then we also operate three brands going on four brands under the umbrella as well.

Jason Washington :
Before I hadn't got back into kind of the plant touching activity, it was more ancillary services. But now we operate four different brands in California and we're looking to expand those into other states.

Greg Dunaway :
Yeah, so, so, you know, you're not busy at all. And I want to, I want to. What I really want to do too is translate kind of the, you know, the high level lessons of your story. Because one of the things that you and I laugh about is you are, you've flown all over the world. You've, you've done so much, you're, you're doing all this stuff. And the other day I'm talking to you and what are you doing? You know, you and I are talking about going to on sites and I think one of the lessons of this industry that you uniquely can speak to is, you know, for. I just talked to a kid from the University of Minnesota. He wants to get into this business and I thought of you and I was like, God, I should haven't talked to Jason.

Greg Dunaway :
What is it about this business that I think, what do you think a lot of people underestimate about the hustle and the grind of this business?

Jason Washington :
You know, look, I think a lot of people are enthralled and attracted to the green rush that used to be associated with this business. It's not that way so much anymore. You know, if, when we're, when we're getting $50 an eighth back then versus what we get now at $12.50 on the wholesale side, you know, when you're getting. Talking about getting 6,000 a pound versus sub 2,000 a pound, there's a big difference in the net revenue that you can take home, if you will. And so this business is about perseverance. You've seen all the, the entrepreneurs jump in all. Now all of a sudden we had all these cannabis entrepreneurs. They all jumped in and they've all jumped out and they've transitioned into psychedelic mushrooms or what.

Jason Washington :
I don't even know the nad. Whatever the next, you know, the next green wave.

Greg Dunaway :
Right, right.

Jason Washington :
Whatever the next hot topic is or whatever the perception of what's cool is, they've. They've all transitioned into those fields. But for us and for me particularly, you know, like I said before, cannabis has just kind of chosen me. And it's not. I, I can't get out of it if I want to. Every time I try to get out of it, I get clawed back in somehow, you know, and so it's, It's. I've kind of just accepted it. I think it's.

Jason Washington :
Again, it's, it's long days. You got to be willing to put in the time and not sit behind a computer and just act like you know what's going on. If you've never touched a plant or if you've never been in a grow room and worked to understand the trials and the difficulty it is for those guys on that side to stand behind a counter. But tending. How can you relate the experience in order to be able to know the entire supply chain in order to deliver a product to a consumer that checks all the boxes. So, you know, I pride myself on, you know, people still ask me, I still, I'll label jars, I'll. I do all the deliveries in California because I like to keep those relationships with buyers and bud tenders and I like to, I like them to see me in the stores so they know it's not just, this is me. Like you're dealing with me.

Jason Washington :
I'm not. I'm never too far away.

Greg Dunaway :
I love that. I love that. And, and I know I'm coming up. I know you've got to go visit with clients. I wanted to close on. You know, we're dealing with a lot. Right. We're dealing with price compression, a market that really is changing day to day.

Greg Dunaway :
I think you and I are talking the other day, I. Out here in Arizona, I'm seeing an independent group go under, you know, about. About once a month. So when you look at the landscape and you look at your success and what. What kind of what other people might be able to. To draw as conclusions or opportunities from not only what you've done, but kind of where you're going, like, where. Where does your sense of optimism come from, Jason? Like, what are you looking forward to? What excites you right now about the market?

Jason Washington :
Look, what excites me is all the guys falling out, because I think there was a lot of people in the way, people that never should have been in the industry in the first place, people who were in it for the wrong reasons, the greed, and all of those reasons are why so many have failed. And so for me, it makes. From an optimistic standpoint, I am excited for hard times because a lot of people aren't built for it. When you've sat in a federal prison cell every day for 18 months, I feel like I'm built for it. So. And, you know, longer than that, you know, that is not just what the. The hard times on the road have been. So I, you know, I'm excited for other people to move out the way.

Jason Washington :
There's a lot of gatekeepers, there's a lot of people who are still in the way, and I'm excited for this industry to become more mainstream, for cannabis to reach more people, for it not to be so stigmatized still as it is today. And, you know, just deliver. Deliver the plant to a level that's. That's, again, free of all the negative connotations that have been unfairly placed on the plan itself and people who work in the industry.

Greg Dunaway :
I love it, my friend. I love it. Well, I want to thank you. I know you're out where you're North Carolina, right? North Carolina. With clients today?

Jason Washington :
Yes, sir. Today and tomorrow. I hope to get back west tomorrow night. That'll be nice. And I think I'm going to try to swing down southwest area down, stop by and see you guys if I can.

Greg Dunaway :
Awesome. Well, hey, Jason, on behalf of me, the Arroyo team, we so appreciate your time today. Your story is phenomenal. The lessons people can learn from. It's phenomenal. And again, really appreciate your time, buddy.

Jason Washington :
Yeah, man. Hey, thanks for having me, man. Everybody at the. At Arroyo G, Maple Creek, I appreciate the friendship, man, and. And you guys keep doing your thing and the roads will meet somewhere along the way.

Greg Dunaway :
All right, thanks, buddy.

Jason Washington :
All right, man. Have a good one.